He Was America’s Highest-Rating Navy Officer. Then Got here the Battle on D.E.I.

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From “The New York Occasions“, I’m Michael Barbaro. That is “The Each day“.

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Throughout his decades-long path to turning into America’s highest-ranking army officer, Common Charles Q. Brown received the essential assist of President Trump. Till that was Brown publicly talked in regards to the one topic that’s now taboo in Trump’s authorities. At this time, Pentagon Correspondent Helene Cooper on what bought Brown fired and why it has so completely rocked the army.

It’s Thursday, February 27.

Nicely, Helene, thanks for coming into this studio. And thanks for making time for us.

Good to be right here, Michael.

Helene, are you able to inform us about what’s being described because the “Friday Evening Bloodbath” contained in the Pentagon that unfolded just a few days in the past. And why, even within the context of President Trump firing so many individuals throughout so many federal businesses, this felt completely different, and vital, and value singling out, which is, in fact, what we’re doing right here in our dialog with you in the present day.

Nicely, on Friday evening, President Trump fired three very senior Pentagon officers. A type of individuals is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees, Common Charles Q Brown, recognized all over the place as CQ Brown, who’s the highest-ranking army official within the nation. This was generally known as the Friday Evening Bloodbath on the Pentagon, as a result of it was so gorgeous for the easy cause that the American army is meant to be apolitical.

Just like the FBI, the army is meant to remain in place no matter who the president is. A few of the best generals in historical past made a degree of the truth that they didn’t vote, like George Marshall. Even at one level, Ulysses S. Grant, again when he was a normal combating the Civil Battle, didn’t vote in 1864 for the president.

This can be a large deal within the army. And that’s since you desire a army that’s not going to be the arm of a political occasion. In order that’s why what occurred was so shocking.

So what defined that, as you could have simply described it, extremely uncommon choice to fireplace Brown?

Nicely, the story of how CQ Brown got here to be fired by President Trump is mostly a story of perceived disloyalty. It’s a narrative of a president who doesn’t perceive that the army isn’t purported to be a political extension of himself. And it’s a narrative of solely the second Black man to grow to be chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees, the army’s highest rating officer, and his efforts to reside and exist in his personal pores and skin, an effort that I believe simply ran afoul of Trump’s personal notions of loyalty and disloyalty.

So in some sense, this can be a story, you’re saying, about loyalty and race.

Yeah.

Nicely, inform us that story of who CQ Brown is within the span of his profession and the way, he in Trump’s thoughts, mishandles the query of race in a manner that feels, to Trump, in some way disloyal.

Nicely, CQ Brown, as a child, he was referred to as Chuck, Chuck Brown. He was named after his father and grandfather. And he grew up in San Antonio, Texas, desirous to be an architect.

His father, then again, had been within the Military and actually preferred the thought of army service for his son, inspired him to affix the ROTC when he bought to school. Brown joined the ROTC, however he wasn’t very into it at first. He as soon as advised me, till he went up in his first airplane, it was a T-37 twin-engine, noisy airplane that pilots affectionately name Tweety Chook, he was hooked. From that second on, he needed to be a pilot.

Wow. Not everybody’s regular path.

No, no.

Architect to a fighter pilot.

So he went on to affix the Air Power. And he turned a fighter pilot. He flew F-16s all through his profession. He led a squadron first, after which continues to be promoted.

He finally ends up at CENTCOM, Central Command, the place he’s the quantity 2 on the Air Power there. Throughout the Iraq and Syria fights, the place he will get a popularity of being very calm within the storm, certainly one of his commanders on the time who mentioned that each time he walked out the door, there could be some disaster or one other. And he would say, who’s in cost?

And if any person mentioned, “CQ,” he would settle down as a result of he knew simply how regular in a storm CQ Brown was. So he’s constructed this popularity. He accumulates 130 fight flying hours. He’s all around the world for the Air Power.

And he finally lands in Korea at Pacific Command, the place he turns into the top of the USA Air Power within the Pacific. And he’s now, at this level, a three-star Lieutenant Common, which is one under as excessive as you may get. And he’s really useful to President Trump to be the following Air Power chief of employees by Mark Esper, who’s the Protection secretary on the time.

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And simply clarify what meaning and why it’s a promotion.

It’s an enormous promotion as a result of that implies that he could be not solely a four-star, however he could be commanding the USA Air Power, one thing no Black man, or girl, or anybody aside from a white man had ever accomplished.

So in saying the appointment, Trump is enthusiastic. He notes that he’s a patriot. He notes that he’s going to be the primary African American appointed to this publish.

Actually, his swearing-in ceremony takes place contained in the White Home and is run by Trump.

Wow.

So Trump very a lot facilitates CQ Brown’s rise to just about the heights of the US army.

Donald Trump is the person who set CQ Brown as much as finally grow to be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees. The way in which the army works is that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees can solely be appointed from a particular pool of army officers.

You must be both the Military chief of employees, the Navy chief of Naval Operations, the Air Power chief of employees, the Marine commandant, or you need to be one of many four-star Combatant Command. You’ve bought to be a type of individuals.

So it’s a really restricted pool from which the president chooses the following senior army official, the following chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees. And it’s Donald Trump who elevates CQ Brown to the place from which his successor, Joe Biden, can choose him because the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees.

Acquired it.

However proper in the midst of this, Michael, comes George Floyd. So Trump has nominated CQ Brown, the Pacific Air Power commander, to be the following Air Power chief. After which George Floyd is killed on Memorial Day in 2020. And that killing ignites this enormous motion for social justice that takes over the nation.

I bear in mind it properly.

Yeah. And CQ Brown’s son, who was college-aged on the time, comes as much as him and says, Dad, what’s Pacific Command going to do about this?

And what does he imply by that?

Brown mentioned to me, he knew that was code for, what are you going to say about this?

What’s my dad, this outstanding, Black army chief going to do and say.

Yeah. And so CQ Brown made a video.

It’s a 4 minute and 49 second video. He’s sitting in his fatigues in opposition to a black backdrop. And it’s extraordinarily stark.

There’s a tremor in his voice.

And he simply talks about being a Black man. He talks about dwelling within the pores and skin that God gave him.

It’s a sophisticated message that he really manages to convey. And he talks in regards to the satisfaction he felt in becoming a member of the Air Power. He says, “My nation tis of thee, candy land of liberty.”

However it’s mentioned a bit of bit mockingly, as a result of he’s additionally speaking about what so many Black males earlier than him had gone by.

He talks about being within the Air Power and being the one Black man in his squadron.

He talks about being shunned, in some methods, by a few of his Black mates who don’t perceive why he’s hanging out along with his white fighter squadron on the similar time.

And I used to be actually shocked at the truth that he managed to get all these things throughout, whereas on the similar time, holding it fully targeted on his personal life. He’s not talking for anyone else. He’s talking for himself. And he talks about being very conscious of the burden of what he’s going to have to hold.

And what’s the response to this video throughout the army?

It electrifies the Pentagon. My cellphone began ringing off the hook. All people was speaking about it.

Did you see the CQ Brown video? Did you see the CQ Brown video? All people was passing it round on the Pentagon. And there was a bit of little bit of concern, type of like trepidation about, wow, how is Trump going to react?

Nicely, what’s the reply? I imply, how does then President Trump react to this?

He doesn’t have a public response within the second. There’s rather a lot happening on the time.

Proper, it’s the pandemic.

It’s the pandemic. There are the Black Lives Issues’ protests happening. And he’s already combating along with his army as a result of, on the time, Trump needs to deploy active-duty American troops onto the streets in opposition to the protesters and even requested the Protection secretary, Mark Esper, who says no. He and Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees on the time, argue ferociously in opposition to deploying active-duty American troops within the streets. And Trump may be very offended at them.

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In the meantime, CQ Brown has now, by releasing that video, appears to have allied himself with Milley and Esper, who Trump now hates. And Trump won’t overlook it.

We’ll be proper again.

Helene, simply earlier than the break, you urged that CQ Brown, whether or not he meant to or not, finally ends up seeming in alliance with Trump’s enemies throughout the army. However, in fact, at this second in our chronology, Trump is on his approach to an electoral loss to Joe Biden. And so he’s going to go away the image for a number of years. So choose the story up right here for CQ Brown. What occurs when Joe Biden turns into president?

So Joe Biden turns into president. And CQ Brown is the Air Power chief of employees. All the things begins rather well.

CQ Brown, because the Air Power chief of employees, may be very targeted on modernization. He’s targeted on nice energy battle with China and Russia. He’s targeted on Air Power readiness. That’s the army communicate for being able to battle tonight.

Actually able to battle a struggle this night.

Sure. And CQ Brown focuses on that whereas he’s within the Air Power. And he additionally makes one other video.

CQ Brown is narrating it. And it’s this video that reveals all these fighter pilots taking off in fighter jets.

He says, in case you’re the enemy, you may’t inform if I’m Black, or a girl, or white, or Asian American.

All you understand is I’m an American airman about to kick your butt.

It appears to be like straight out of “Prime Gun“. They play that video on the NBA All-Star Sport. And it boosts recruitment.

That’s fascinating. And it appears value noting, and I don’t know whether or not this has to do with the truth that Joe Biden is now the president, that CQ Brown is discovering a approach to speak fairly overtly, and it sounds creatively, about range and about guaranteeing that it’s celebrated throughout the army.

Sure. So not lengthy after, in 2023, it’s time for a brand new chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees. And Joe Biden decides that he needs CQ Brown for the job. On the similar time, Lloyd Austin, who can also be African American, is the secretary of Protection. For the primary time in its historical past, the American army and Pentagon are being run by two Black males. And there’s immediately a worry contained in the Pentagon, amongst individuals of shade, that that is going to inflame the MAGA world.

Pete Hegseth, who on the time is a FOX Weekend anchor, he writes in his e book, “The Battle on Warriors“, that CQ Brown was promoted as a result of he’s African American. He says, I believe that could be unfair to him, however since he’s made race his largest calling card, he’ll should reside with it, or phrases to that impact. There’s additionally a bigger critique that Hegseth, and Trump, and quite a lot of the right-leaning Republicans in Congress are lobbying in opposition to the army presently, and that’s that the Pentagon is just too woke.

You’re listening to that on a regular basis.

They’re offended as a result of army faculties have included books that point out essential race concept. They’re very offended that transgender troops are being allowed to have medical care within the army. They’re offended that Lloyd Austin, as an example, has, of their minds, circumvented the Supreme Court docket ruling in opposition to Roe v Wade by agreeing that the army pays the medical journey charges for service members who must get abortions. All of these things is wrapped up in these tradition wars that the right-wing of the Republican Social gathering is lobbying in opposition to the Pentagon, and proper in the midst of that’s the entire range factor.

Proper. And so of their thoughts, what may higher encapsulate the army going woke than having the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees, after George Floyd’s loss of life, having recorded a video speaking about race.

Sure.

So Helene, as soon as Donald Trump wins the presidency again, and as soon as Pete Hegseth, his nominee for secretary of Protection, is confirmed, is the considering, given the whole lot you could have simply laid out right here, that CQ Brown now has a goal on his again?

Completely. Even earlier than Trump received, there was quite a lot of questioning on the Pentagon about whether or not if he received, CQ Brown would be capable to stick round. And the query was fashioned time and again, would he resign? And CQ Brown advised his troops, he advised employees within the Joint Employees, he advised all people underneath him, he advised reporters that he would by no means resign.

He had already gotten to the next place within the army than he ever thought he may, that he has taken an oath to the Structure, and that he wouldn’t stroll away from it with out serving his full time period. And he sort of felt that he may be capable to experience it out. After Trump was elected, Trump and CQ Brown met on the Military-Navy soccer recreation in December. And CQ Brown went as much as Trump’s field, they talked for about quarter-hour, and I believe a few of his staffers thought afterwards that it had gone properly.

I heard from a few Joint Staffers that Trump had mentioned, I believe you’re doing job. However that’s listening to it second – or third-hand. We hear from Trump individuals, that by that time, Trump might have already determined that he was eliminating CQ Brown.

So I believe that brings us up just about to the current and to this Friday Evening Bloodbath that ends with CQ Brown being terminated as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees. I’m curious what the official rationalization turns into for why the president is eliminating him on this function.

Michael, there is no such thing as a official rationalization. Hegseth calls him up and tells him, I’m sorry, you’re being fired. President Trump publish that on Reality Social. Neither man says why, of their public rationalization, why they’re firing CQ Brown. They thank him for his service and transfer on to saying his substitute.

However I talked to numerous individuals, each within the Trump administration and near Trump outdoors of the administration, and what they inform me that Trump and Hegseth arrived at was this perception that in that video, CQ Brown picked a aspect. And the aspect he picked was a aspect that embraced range, fairness, and inclusion. And that, within the minds of Trump and Hegseth, in the present day, in 2025, is the incorrect aspect.

I’m curious who President Trump places ahead to exchange Brown. And the way, within the president’s thoughts and within the thoughts of the Protection Secretary Pete Hegseth, that individual is on the fitting aspect of all of this, if it seems CQ Brown is on the incorrect aspect.

So Trump chooses a retired Lieutenant Common, Dan Caine, who goes by the decision signal of Razin Caine, which Trump loves, to exchange CQ Brown. Each males are fighter pilots, however Dan Caine has three stars and retired, CQ Brown had 4 stars.

Trump fell in love with Dan Caine, in Trump’s personal telling in 2018, when he made a spur of the second December journey to Iraq. And one of many many locations that Trump advised a model of this story was on the Conservative Political Motion Convention in 2024.

Based on Trump, Dan Caine appeared straight out of central casting.

And Trump says, and also you observe I preserve saying, “Trump says,” and attributing this to Trump, as a result of Trump has advised this story many occasions and the story modifications every time.

Based on Trump, Dan Caine mentioned, I really like you. I’ll kill for you, sir.

Wow.

Trump claims that Dan Caine placed on a MAGA hat, which might be in opposition to army regulation to be that partisan. And that just about cemented it for Donald Trump, by all accounts. It needs to be famous that Common Caine has advised his aides that he has by no means placed on a MAGA hat.

Acquired it. So he principally denies that this occurred.

Sure.

So this appears vital. After firing CQ Brown for being any person who, to the president, we perceive, represents a woke determine, and it appears in Hegseth’s telling, perhaps somebody who was elevated extra for his race than benefit. There’s no proof of that, however that seems to be the notion from Hegseth. Trump and Hegseth have changed him with any person who has a decrease rank and fewer achievement throughout the army, however whose chief advantage appears to be, in Trump’s telling, unquestioning, specific loyalty and fondness for Trump.

That might be appropriate.

And that, in fact, raises quite a lot of questions. I imply, the primary is whether or not loyalty is now being prized over benefit. And to the diploma that that’s the case, we now have two of essentially the most highly effective individuals within the army chain of command, Hegseth, who has no conventional credentials to run the Protection Division, however Trump has requested him to take action. Now now we have Caine, who has lots of the credentials, however not the credentials of the final individual to be chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Employees. What they’ve in frequent is a really robust, in Trump’s thoughts, loyalty to the president. What does that begin to inform us in regards to the state of our Armed Forces and their relationship to the president?

It’s such query, Michael. It says rather a lot about Donald Trump and the way Donald Trump considers the army, once more, as an extension of his personal administration, which isn’t purported to be. We may have a complete session, the 2 of us, on simply the risks of a politicized army. And that would take up hours and hours of speaking.

However that’s what Donald Trump threatened many occasions in his actions throughout his first time period. And he was walked again by the generals he had within the army who fought this. And now he’s starting his second time period in the very same place, besides he appears to be pushing it even more durable.

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And, in fact, the opposite very pointed, I believe, however important query that this entire episode raises is, what sort of a Black chief is allowed within the senior ranges of Trump’s authorities? I imply, what might be your relationship to race, to George Floyd, to questions of range, if you wish to be any person who succeeds in Trump’s administration?

I don’t know the reply to that, Michael.

I imply, what have we discovered from the expertise of CQ Brown?

Nicely, I can’t communicate to Donald Trump’s worldview. However primarily based on the conversations that I’ve had, the message obtained by Black males within the army is that you just can’t succeed except you’re prepared to by no means point out any of the trials and challenges that you might have confronted as a Black man. And don’t discuss something that the USA authorities might have accomplished or not accomplished to contribute to that.

Nicely, Helene, thanks very a lot. We recognize it.

Thanks, Michael.

We’ll be proper again.

Right here’s what else you must know in the present day. Throughout a affirmation listening to on Wednesday, three of President Trump’s selections to assist run the Justice Division clashed with Democratic senators about whether or not the White Home can merely ignore some courtroom orders, a risk that many authorized students see as the beginning of a constitutional disaster.

Beneath questioning, the attorneys, together with Aaron Reiter, Trump’s option to run the Justice Division’s Workplace of Authorized Coverage, urged that Trump may, actually, ignore the courtroom’s rulings.

The difficulty has taken on rising urgency as Trump makes an attempt to increase his energy, and federal courts repeatedly rule that his actions are unlawful.

I’m Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.

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At this time’s episode was produced by Shannon Lin and Stella Tan. It was edited by Liz O’Baylen with assist from Paige Cowett. It comprises authentic music by Marion Lozano, Dan Powell, Pat McCusker, and Diane Wong, and was engineered by Chris Wooden. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

That’s it for “The Each day“.

An earlier model of this episode misstated Charles Q. Brown Jr.’s army rank and misidentified the placement during which he was primarily based as commander of the Pacific Air Forces. He was primarily based in Hawaii, not Korea, and was a four-star normal on the time.