Trump 2.0: The Artwork of the Deal

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From “The New York Occasions,” I’m Michael Barbaro. That is “The Day by day.”

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This week, the president proposed two offers — one at residence, the opposite overseas — that might require allies to place his wants forward of theirs. And in each instances, Trump received precisely what he wished. To know why, I spoke with three of my colleagues, White Home Correspondents Maggie Haberman and Zolan Kanno-Youngs and congressional correspondent Catie Edmondson.

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It’s Friday, February twenty eighth.

So, associates, welcome again, all three of you to the roundtable. Zolan and Katie, thanks for being in our Washington studio. Good to have you ever.

Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us, Michael.

Thanks, Michael.

I didn’t even say hiya to you but, Maggie.

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How presumptuous of me.

There’s an order to this all. The host says hiya, and the visitors — you’ll be able to’t simply get forward of it. You possibly can’t simply circumvent.

I hope you all hold this in.

That’s the plan. Prepared? Maggie, thanks very a lot for being right here.

Michael, thanks for having me.

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So this was every week, I might argue, of dealmaking by President Trump. And we’re going to spend time on two of these offers. And also you’ve all been fastidiously chosen due to your relationship to those offers. The primary deal was with Congress, and there was plenty of drama surrounding this one, as there typically is with Congress. Maggie, simply to begin, what was this?

Trump has been very centered, and his aides have been very centered within the White Home, on making an attempt to get by way of some form of a invoice by way of Congress that mirrored what he campaigned on. In order that’s —

Not an govt motion, which has just about outline this presidency.

Right. Trump has taken numerous govt actions. He’s very pleased with it. However you’ll be able to’t do the whole lot that manner. Spending has to get handed by way of Congress, a minimum of on this type. So this Home invoice was form of a half-man, half-horse of Trump’s marketing campaign guarantees.

That’s a really intriguing metaphor. Catie, are you able to clarify what this half-man, half-horse factor was that finally ends up earlier than Congress?

Yeah, I imply, the marketing campaign guarantees that Maggie highlighted are actually tax cuts. It’s extending the 2017 tax cuts that his administration handed the primary time round. And there are a selection of different taxes that, on the marketing campaign path, he mentioned he wished to eradicate.

However for lots of Home Republicans, they don’t wish to simply reduce taxes. Additionally they wish to reduce spending, federal spending.

Proper. That’s an enormous a part of their message. It’s an enormous a part of their model. It’s an enormous a part of the Republican Occasion id for the final decade.

Completely, and so numerous these Republicans have mentioned, President Trump have been very joyful to increase your tax cuts to chop taxes extra, however we additionally want to have the ability to reduce federal spending. And that’s what this funds decision that they put to a vote on the Home ground on Tuesday evening laid out the parameters for.

OK. And so what occurs as soon as this half-man, half-horse — I’m simply going to maintain saying that as many instances as I can — reaches the Home ground?

Effectively, that is the balancing act that Speaker Johnson has actually needed to cope with his total time as speaker, which is placating, principally, each the extremely conservatives in his convention and the extra average Republicans, lots of whom symbolize form of swing districts. And so that you heard some issues from these extra centrist Republicans who’re saying, look, I do know this decision we’re about to vote on doesn’t say that we’re going to chop packages like Medicaid or Medicare, however we’re wanting on the manner this invoice has been written. And evidently virtually definitely so as to get to the degrees of spending cuts we’re speaking about, we’re going to have to chop packages like Medicaid.

And so that you had some deep issues from lawmakers who symbolize districts the place plenty of their constituents depend on Medicaid. On the similar time, you had these extremely conservatives say, really, I feel this invoice doesn’t reduce spending sufficient, and I’m unsure if I can carry myself to vote for this decision if it, in reality, goes to extend the deficit.

I don’t suppose we will let what you simply mentioned about Medicare and Medicaid fly by. That’s a biggie in American politics. So whoever desires to take this on, what about this plan appears to many to require touching the third rail of American politics, which is doubtlessly slicing these two enormous well being packages that tens of millions and tens of millions of People depend on?

Effectively, I don’t wish to get us into the weeds an excessive amount of, however the way in which a funds decision is structured, lawmakers aren’t required to put out the particular coverage adjustments that they wish to make so as to hit these spending targets. However it does instruct particular person committees and say, look, that you must go and discover, you understand, x variety of {dollars} of cuts once we construct this laws that we’re finally going to place to the ground for a vote. And so on this explicit decision, lawmakers have informed the committee that oversees Medicaid and Medicare spending, we want you guys to search out, on this case, $880 billion in cuts.

Over 10 years, proper?

Over 10 years.

$880 billion over 10 years. And there’s solely so some ways which you can really attain these cuts. And for a program like Medicaid — and simply as a reminder, that is the federal government program offering medical health insurance for low-income People.

Bless you for explaining that.

That’s now a program that could possibly be on the chopping block right here on this saga.

Effectively, let’s discuss how that — to make use of your phrase, Zolan — saga unfolds in Congress when the president begins to ask members of his celebration in Congress to go this unwieldy factor that may require, as you all mentioned, cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.

So this was, but once more, one other vote on the Home ground, the place we actually didn’t know if Speaker Johnson had the assist essential to push this laws by way of. He’s working with terribly skinny margins. We noticed Democratic leaders really carry again numerous their lawmakers who’ve been ailing, who haven’t been on the Capitol.

Or who simply, I feel I noticed this, had a child like a pair weeks in the past.

A month in the past. Sure, a month in the past had a child. Come again to the Capitol for this vote, making an attempt to ratchet up the strain. Speaker Johnson, as he walked out onto the Home ground, mentioned, I’ve the votes. In the meantime, I used to be texting with a Republican who had mentioned they have been going to oppose the decision as a result of it added to the deficit. They usually mentioned, by my rely, there’s three of us who’re going to oppose it, which might doom it.

However it seems they each have been form of proper. Speaker Johnson was capable of push this decision throughout the end line in the long run, nevertheless it took about an hour. We noticed him and a few of his deputies actually working over about three, 4 Republican lawmakers. These have been all extremely conservative lawmakers who mentioned they didn’t wish to vote for this decision as a result of it might add to the deficit.

It appeared for some time like Johnson was not going to have the ability to get them to flip. However then one thing notable occurred, which is that the Republican management spirited a few of these defectors off the Home ground. And when that occurred, I believed, I’ve seen this film earlier than, as a result of that’s what occurred when Johnson was reelected again in January.

Proper.

They took the defectors off the ground they usually received a name from President Trump.

Maggie, is that this the place you are available?

That is the place I are available. So one of many potential defectors, Victoria Spartz from Indiana, received a name from Trump, or spoke to Trump. It’s not clear to me who initiated the decision, however he was actually pressuring her, as we perceive it, to vote for this invoice.

And at this second, when the Republican Occasion resides in Congress so afraid of Trump —

So encroached upon.

— and so afraid to go in opposition to him in any manner, and he’s making an instance of anybody who does, this was plenty of strain.

Mm-hmm. And finally, she votes for it.

Proper. And it passes 217 to 215 with only one Republican voting in opposition to.

Let’s focus for only a second on the query of spending and debt, which might appear to be the factor that these defectors principally have been upset about. How a lot is that this funds going to extend the US debt?

So what home Republicans have given themselves is that they’ve mentioned we’re going to reduce taxes by $4.5 trillion. After which we’re going to reduce spending by $2 trillion. So basically, you’re looking at a bit of laws right here that’s going so as to add to the deficit by $2.5 trillion. And for lots of lawmakers, that’s a giant quantity.

Yeah, it’s a giant quantity. And that is the place — and Zolan and Maggie, I’m curious what you suppose — we all know the place many members of the Republican Occasion stand on this. Home Republicans have ousted audio system over failures to rein in spending and be powerful sufficient on the debt. And right here comes the president form of bulldozing those that raised that query about spending and debt.

And that creates a extremely difficult and, I feel I’d argue, incoherent message about what the Republican model is, particularly in Congress, but additionally on the White Home. Is it the celebration that cares about deficit and DOGE and slicing spending and eliminating folks in order that we have now a smaller authorities, or is it the celebration that creates further debt in order that it could actually reduce taxes?

It’s difficult, Michael. And I feel — look, Republicans have been complaining about debt and the deficit eternally. And underneath Trump’s time period, definitely, it was added to.

The primary one.

So, proper. And Trump traditionally pushes issues down the street. He kicks the can down the street on what he’s going to cope with. And that creates a fraught state of affairs, particularly for these members who’re going to return to their districts and have to clarify all of this.

Proper.

And whilst you’re slicing spending, the query that we have now to maintain asking or are going to be following can be what packages get reduce with that. And when you’re $800 billion over 10 years, there’s only a few methods to do this with out slicing one thing like Medicaid, offering medical health insurance for decrease earnings People.

Lots of that are supporters of the president.

Lots of that are supporters of the president as nicely. And in the event that they have been to do this, Democrats, who up till this level have been actually cautious in selecting what to swing at relating to the Trump administration, I’ve talked to people who suppose they’ve a gap there. And attaching — slicing a authorities program that lots of the president’s personal supporters depend on, to this administration.

Proper.

Can I simply add as nicely?

Yeah.

In 2018, Democrats have been capable of coalesce round a message that was centered on the tried repeal and change of the Inexpensive Care Act. And that was an extremely salient challenge. And we noticed in 2018, Democrats take again the Home after campaigning fairly narrowly on that challenge. And plenty of Democrats that I’ve spoken to previously few days suppose that they’ve an actual opening to make use of that playbook once more, this time on cuts to Medicaid, doubtlessly —

In the event that they occur.

— in the event that they occur. And there’s an actual pleasure and I feel power round that message that, as Zolan identified, we haven’t seen from Democrats in fairly a while.

Obtained it. Again then, Republicans touching the Inexpensive Care Act backfired for them. And Democrats hope that in the event that they contact Medicaid now, it’ll backfire as soon as once more.

Yeah, that’s precisely proper.

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OK, in order that was the Congressional dealmaking this week. After we come again, we’re going to speak concerning the worldwide deal that the president struck.

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We’ll be proper again.

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Welcome again, Zolan, Catie, Maggie. We have now talked on the present earlier than round this very desk a couple of theoretical deal that Trump had wished to make with Ukraine that might require Ukraine to principally compensate the US for all of the army help that the US has given Ukraine in its battle in opposition to Russia. It began off as very theoretical and notional, however now, it’s changing into an precise actuality.

And Ukraine’s chief, Volodymyr Zelenskyy is now headed to Washington to make it official on Friday. Zolan, how did this all begin and turn into what it now could be?

So we’ve talked about how President Trump’s strategy to international coverage can greatest be described as transactional. And we received some examples of that early on when, after coming into workplace, when it got here to help for Ukraine, it began out as form of a musing over having an alternate of the pure assets in Ukraine for help to Ukraine. And that has actually turn into a spotlight of the negotiations that we’ve now seen in latest days and in latest weeks.

So a pivotal level in that is when Trump’s Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent, took a visit to Kyiv, Ukraine, and introduced an preliminary model of this deal. And the preliminary model, Ukraine balked at it.

What was the preliminary model?

First, the US principally desires back-pay for the help they already despatched to Ukraine. Trump is principally saying, you could have these vital earth minerals in Ukraine, and the US goes to get a big quantity, half of the income from that as much as $500 billion.

That’s so much.

The possibly much more vital factor is what’s not in that proposal. And that’s the peace of mind Zelenskyy desires of a long-term safety assure. The priority for Ukraine is that any pause in combating that US and Russia conform to. Effectively, what if Russia makes use of that to construct up its forces, after which Ukraine is left with out the peace of mind, the information that the USA will come to their protection, that the USA will really assist Ukraine.

And it could be left with out some uncommon earth minerals that might assist it pay for its personal protection if it have been to just accept this deal. Maggie, how ought to we perceive this preliminary provide that, on its face, looks as if an excellent deal for the US, and never a lot of a deal in any respect for Ukraine.

I feel you simply answered your personal query. I imply, basically, Trump has separated out Russia and Ukraine from each other, as he’s saying that he’s making an attempt to barter a peace deal. He’s received Russia at one desk with the US. He’s received Ukraine at one other desk with the US.

A smaller desk.

A a lot smaller desk with Ukraine. Trump mentioned it himself, and it’s actually true. Ukraine principally has no playing cards to play. Trump has rejected the thought of NATO membership for Ukraine, and Trump additionally doesn’t wish to present safety ensures for Ukraine. He desires Europe to do it. And that’s going to require a heave of the desire by Europeans, and we’ll see what that appears like. So the brand new deal that’s being negotiated —

As a result of the primary one form of received rejected.

— the primary one was rejected, after which different iterations of it have been rejected. After which the Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, jumped in. And that difficult issues.

Yeah, how will we get to a deal?

So what’s now there, due to numerous forces, is a smaller deal when it comes to what the US will get. Trump retains saying $350 billion. My understanding is the precise quantity is smaller than that, nevertheless it nonetheless doesn’t embrace a safety piece. And that was clearly a pink line for Trump. And Zelenskyy clearly realizes that and is taking what he can get.

However that doesn’t seem to be a deal the president of Ukraine would signal. And but, Zolan, he’s about to reach in Washington and signal it. So sooner or later, he decides that regardless that he’s not likely getting something from it, it’s nonetheless someway worthwhile. Why?

Effectively, for one, I imply, a late model of a US proposal did vaguely say that the US would assist Ukraine’s safety. However then Trump got here across the subsequent day in a cupboard assembly and mentioned, basically, that was going to be the accountability of European nations which can be nearer to Ukraine. Zelenskyy is in a extremely tight spot right here. I imply, he is aware of Ukraine has been counting on plenty of US help. And he’s now put ready the place, like many different world leaders, he now wants to return to Washington and attempt to placate Trump, attempt to use quaint diplomacy to attempt to safe any form of assurance for Ukraine.

Catie, is that this the loss of life, just like the official loss of life of something resembling the standard Republican strategy to Russia and containing its territorial aggression and its earlier mandate to guard Ukraine?

I imply, look, over the previous seven years I’ve been up on the Hill, I’ve written so much concerning the two international coverage wings of the Republican Occasion — the normal Mitch McConnell interventionist —

Defend Ukraine, proper.

— proper, wing, and on the time ascendant form of they name themselves realists, restrainers, individuals who didn’t wish to ship form of US treasure, US troops overseas. And I feel what we’ve seen over the previous couple of weeks, a minimum of relating to Republicans in Congress, is that that’s not likely a battle anymore. And that the —

It’s over.

It’s over. The anti-interventionists have gained. They occupy positions of energy in Republican management on the Hill. They occupy positions of energy inside the Pentagon.

And so I feel Zelenskyy is aware of that. He is aware of that he’s not going to get any extra help from Congress. And so he has to make a cope with President Trump.

Effectively, to that time, when you subscribe to this ascendant now victorious America-first worldview that has now dominated the celebration underneath Trump, isn’t this fairly an achievement? America goes to recoup the cash it spent in Ukraine, with no dedication to spend rather more, or to ever put American troops in hurt’s manner in Ukraine in a battle that Trump and lots of Republicans don’t suppose the US has an actual curiosity in?

Sure, I imply, that is — look, in an extended line of issues that Donald Trump promised in the course of the marketing campaign and is doing, that is one. He made very clear that he didn’t assist the help to Ukraine. Trump additionally seems to be in any respect of those engagements by way of an financial lens. He doesn’t take a look at them by way of a international coverage finish, as some form of an ethical train.

He’s it as what’s the greatest deal for the US. He sees Ukraine as a tiny nation. Russia is clearly not the superpower it as soon as was, however in Trump’s thoughts, it looms a lot bigger from its stature a long time in the past. And he sees extra enterprise alternatives for the nation, as he has mentioned, with Russia than he does with Ukraine.

It’s fascinating. Even when the administration is making an attempt to reassure Ukraine that the USA will probably be right here, they really level to the truth that, look, if we have now an funding in your vital earth minerals, that’s, in a type, the most effective form of safety assurance that you would get as a result of we don’t need Russia to take over all of this territory. If we have now an settlement with you to proceed to financially profit from these vital earth minerals, isn’t it extra seemingly that we’ll proceed to assist your protection of your land, which I feel says so much about Trump.

That’s fascinating.

It says so much about him.

Proper. One of the simplest ways to get America’s assist is to permit us to have a monetary curiosity in you not being overrun by your bigger neighbor.

That’s proper.

Which on this case, he’s simply struck.

That’s proper. It’s additionally value noting simply among the criticism that’s come from another European leaders who’ve mentioned that this does echo colonialism as nicely. And a colonialist strategy the place you wish to extract the assets of a rustic that you’ve got leverage over and even energy over.

I simply wish to finish by asking for a bigger reflection on all this dealmaking. We began, in fact, in Congress. Now, we’ve gotten to this cope with Ukraine. However when you zoom out even additional and you consider all of the Trump offers which were struck since he was inaugurated, you’ve received a cope with Canada on tariffs. You’ve received a cope with Mexico on tariffs.

On prime of that, the prime minister of the UK was simply on the White Home providing Trump a deal of his personal to extend the UK’s protection spending, one thing that as we’ve hinted at right here, Trump has requested all European international locations to take action that they’re much less reliant on United States protection spending. And when you consider it, the widespread thread right here is Trump’s allies — and stick with me, that is a type of heady, stretch ending questions — his allies, each inside his celebration and America’s allies the world over, are all form of bending to him in ways in which don’t appear to hew to custom, or in some instances, to their very own greatest pursuits.

And simply to provide you a vivid instance of that knee bending and simply how vivid it’s, proper earlier than we began taping, the prime minister of the UK handed Donald Trump a letter from King Charles. And I wish to play you that scene.

I imply, simply to essentially summarize what has occurred on this scene, the prime minister of the UK, having principally been summoned to Washington to ensure that Trump is aware of that he’s prepared to have much less US safety in Europe, and as a substitute that the UK will spend extra by itself safety, follows up by saying, oh, and by the way in which, our King desires to have you ever for dinner. It’s going to be wonderful. It’s going to be historic.

The scene is considered one of form of — let’s simply put it actually plainly — self-debasement within the title of impressing Donald Trump.

There was a complete sideshow within the first time period when Trump visited the UK and met with the royal household. And there have been all these complaints about how he dealt with himself and a few issues by folks across the Royals that they didn’t care for the way the Trump entourage was behaving and so forth. And that was all very a lot on the UK’s phrases.

That is all on Donald Trump’s phrases and utilizing the British Royal household, which Trump has been enchanted by since childhood — and he credit his mom for that — as a coupon. And so that is completely a change in tone and a change in strategy. And it’s positively a bending of the knee of some kinds. However additionally it is a mirrored image of how world leaders have, as a substitute of bristling in opposition to Trump making an attempt to set the talk on his personal phrases, are simply basically saying, eh, the hell with it at this level. And that’s fairly totally different than the primary time period. It is a recognition that Trump desires some form of providing, and this one is fairly intelligent.

I feel all of us might need imagined that Trump’s victory within the US meant that there can be plenty of dealmaking from inside the Republican Occasion and concessions, however that is one thing else solely. These are America’s strongest allies, saying, the place do you want me? What would you like? Right here’s the deal.

That’s proper. Sure.

And it’s simply very placing what a unprecedented train of energy we’re seeing from this president.

I feel that’s proper. And it’s slightly little bit of what have you ever finished for me currently strategy to international coverage. And also you’re seeing different nations react in a strategy to attempt to give him one thing that he can cite that they’ve finished for him currently. And it’s not simply in the present day.

The Japanese Prime Minister got here to the White Home and was showering Trump with compliments, complimenting his look on TV. Netanyahu additionally showered him with compliments. When he threatened tariffs in opposition to Mexico —

Proper.

— Mexico agreed to new border safety measures. You noticed Canada additionally threatened with tariffs and talked about various things they have been going to do at their northern border. So that you’re seeing Trump clarify what his strategy to international coverage is. And also you’re seeing different world leaders reply by giving him one thing, whether or not it’s one thing tangible on the bottom or just even the looks of placating on the White Home.

Proper. And that may be minerals, actually one thing from the bottom, or it may be dinner with the King.

That’s proper.

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Effectively, considered one of them might be extra particular to the US financial system than the opposite, however sure.

Effectively, my because of all three of you. Maggie, Zolan, Catie, see you once more quickly.

Thanks, Michael.

Thanks, Michael.

Thanks, Michael. Thanks, everybody. [MUSIC PLAYING]

We’ll be proper again.

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Right here’s what else that you must know in the present day. Within the newest authorized setback to the president’s cost-cutting efforts, a federal decide has barred the Workplace of Personnel Administration from ordering the termination of 1000’s of probationary employees. The decide dominated that the firings, which have occurred throughout federal companies, have been unlawful as a result of, he argued, solely particular person companies have the ability to rent and fireplace their very own employees. In consequence, the Workplace of Personnel Administration, he discovered, can not order firings past its personal employees, because it just lately has.

And Republican lawmakers in Iowa have overwhelmingly handed a invoice to finish the state’s civil rights protections for transgender folks. If signed into regulation by the state’s Republican governor, the laws would take away trans id from a listing of protected teams that employers, companies, and landlords could not discriminate in opposition to, and would make Iowa the primary state within the nation to revoke such protections.

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As we speak’s episode was produced by Carlos Prieto and Eric Krupke. It was edited by Rachel Quester and MJ Davis, accommodates unique music by Diane Wong, Dan Powell, Rowan Niemisto, and Elisheba Ittoop, and was engineered by Chris Wooden. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.

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That’s it for “The Day by day.” I’m Michael Barbaro. See you on Monday.

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